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Post by rfourn on Jan 1, 2020 16:57:41 GMT -6
Finaly got time for some fishing today Nothing big but 2 fish on one fly.
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Robert Burton
Fly Fishing Zombie
Eventually all things merge into one, and a river runs through it.
Posts: 4,744
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Post by Robert Burton on Jan 2, 2020 17:07:34 GMT -6
Off to a good start there!
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Post by rfourn on Jan 2, 2020 20:44:16 GMT -6
Oh man fishing is though...6 locations almost skunk
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Post by AnglersAnonymous on Jan 4, 2020 21:02:24 GMT -6
I skunked on my trip! Only found 1 day to fish as I was there with my family and took the kids to the parks. But found some real nice spots for next time, if only I had a couple more days!!!
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Post by rfourn on Jan 6, 2020 15:27:47 GMT -6
Had to switch to spinning rod this morning fishing snakeheads, missed 2 but I caught a beautifull snook. This peacock was in my back yard when I got home, got my fly rod out!
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Post by AnglersAnonymous on Jan 7, 2020 0:07:20 GMT -6
What a beauty! Oh man, I wish I was still there!
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Post by brianrap on Jan 7, 2020 6:59:56 GMT -6
Nice fish Bob. Here is my PSA for today with a link to some research of using a lip grip. Their conclusions: Larger fish do require an increased emphasis on proper fish handling, by supporting their weight with a second hand. Applying too much pressure to soft tissue areas can cause damage. Many state agencies claim anything greater than any angle that deviates 10 percent or more from vertical or horizontal has the potential to damage the jaw. Holding fish with a fish grip or by a hanging scale is beneficial. The recommendation that it is acceptable to hold fish horizontally with a second hand supporting its weight or completely vertical is still valid and supported by our research. Holding fish vertically with the weight of the fish being placed on the jaw in an exaggerated fashion is not acceptable. Injured fish will likely swim away and appear completely normal. Long-term affects of soft tissue injuries are currently unknown. www.wired2fish.com/biology/what-happens-when-you-hold-a-bass/
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Post by cfused on Jan 7, 2020 7:51:38 GMT -6
Looks like you are having some fun down there. Sure like the looks of those peacock bass.
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Post by rfourn on Jan 7, 2020 17:28:25 GMT -6
Agree with you Brian and nothing wrong with the way I’m holding those fish. Your the second one who talks about the lip grip when I’m doing it right.
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Post by brianrap on Jan 7, 2020 18:22:08 GMT -6
Actually you aren't Bob. Please read the link I attached. I know you care about preserving the resource. The radiographs in the link clearly show the unnecessary stress that is placed on the jaw that could potentially cause the fish to die if the jaw no longer functions normally.
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Post by rfourn on Jan 7, 2020 18:30:07 GMT -6
Brian instead of trashing fisherman’s threads I suggest you create your own. You could better serve the community by properly stocking your store.
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Post by brianrap on Jan 7, 2020 18:39:41 GMT -6
Just posted to pass on some info I thought would be helpful for anyone interested in preserving the health of our fisheries. No offence intended. And btw, if there is something in particular you would like to see stocked in the store, please let me know and I will pass on the request. Please understand though that we can only stock what is available thru our warehouse and buyers at head office in Edmonton.
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Post by rfourn on Jan 7, 2020 20:46:04 GMT -6
FYI
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Post by brianrap on Jan 8, 2020 7:32:24 GMT -6
That's good advice Bob. I especially like this part and think we would all benefit from the reminder in the info you posted:
Minimal contact with the fish Horizontal, two-hand support Short duration of handling. These are clearly good rules for handling ANY (emphasis added) fish you plan to release.
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Post by rfourn on Jan 8, 2020 8:39:33 GMT -6
That's good advice Bob. I especially like this part and think we would all benefit from the reminder in the info you posted: Minimal contact with the fish Horizontal, two-hand support Short duration of handling. These are clearly good rules for handling ANY (emphasis added) fish you plan to release. Brian can you read? It clearly says the lip handling is ok for fish under 3 lbs. Like I said nothing wrong with the way I handle the fish. Stop making up crap!
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Post by rfourn on Jan 8, 2020 9:38:23 GMT -6
You said I miss handled the fish Brian. Stop harassing my threads to make ur self look good. Like I told you, if you don’t like my post move on. If you want to educate fisherman on fish handling create ur own post tactfully. People like you do more damage then help fisherman. If you continue your rhetoric with my thread I’m out of here.
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Robert Burton
Fly Fishing Zombie
Eventually all things merge into one, and a river runs through it.
Posts: 4,744
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Post by Robert Burton on Jan 8, 2020 9:49:45 GMT -6
Again I must state there are greater problems with our fisheries than the lip grip on by C&R fly fishers
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Post by brianrap on Jan 8, 2020 20:27:08 GMT -6
Pardon my attempt to try to pass on some research that is pertinent and relevant to this thread. While it might not be the most pressing issue, proper fish handling is an issue we should all embrace. Would it be acceptable to post pictures of people posing with their pike while holding it by the eyes? After all, that used to be a common technique of fish handling before people became educated to the potential harm that technique caused. If Fly Fishing Manitoba is not interested in my attempt to help preserve the health of our fishery resources by posting data such as I posted, please let me know as I have neither the interest nor desire to be a part of any group that may try to minimize or silence my attempts to help preserve our fisheries, regardless of whether or not it is the "most pressing" issue we face. My intent was not to offend or embarass, but rather to provide some educational information. I have pictures of situations when I didn't properly handle fish (eg. laying it on grass to take a photo) and am glad I have learned of methods that help ensure I can reduce or eliminate potential harms which can result from such situations or techniques and I take no offense to people educating me on such methods-in fact, I appreciate it.
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Post by rfourn on Jan 8, 2020 20:37:41 GMT -6
Brian you got a problem. Let it go already and start you own group. Let this be the end.
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Post by brianrap on Jan 8, 2020 22:54:32 GMT -6
OK, let this be the end. Perhaps you will accept the recommendations of a fisherman that also happens to have a PH.D in fish physiology. His finding are that holding a fish by the lip, especially larger fish, can cause sufficient damage to cause the death of the fish. Furthermore, because fish live in a buoyant virtually gravity free environment, holding a fish vertically may also cause stretches or tears of the mesenteries that hold the internal organs in place, compromising their digestive process. "We’ve all done it: the classic trophy pose. You know, the one where you lift the fish by its lower jaw, either by placing your thumb in its mouth or with one of those popular lip-gripping devices. Before attending graduate school, I held many of my own catches in this manner. However, subsequent research into fish physiology and biome-chanics — in which I earned my degree — has shown me that lifting fish by their lower jaw can cause severe and potentially life-threatening injuries. That’s why I no longer do it.Handling techniques may seem a small issue until you consider all the physiological and anatomical stress experienced by the fish during the fighting and landing process.Muscle exhaustion, lactic acid buildup and hook punctures all reduce a fish’s chances of post-release survival, so it’s important to limit any additional formsof stress or injury. And one simple way to do this is to refrain from lifting them by their lower jaw." "Regardless of the species, when you grab a fish by its lower jaw and lift it, you’re placing nearly all of its body weight on that crucial lower jaw joint. In red drum, for example,the weight of the opening and closing jaw muscles and lower jaw bones make up less than two percent of the fish’s total body weight.Keep in mind also that the fish’s jaw muscles, bones and joints have developed in the relatively weight-less underwater environment,where they never experience such heavy loads. As fish get larger, jaw stability and strength do not increase proportionally, so bigger fish have relatively weaker jaws than smaller fish of the same species. Therefore, lifting big fish by the lower jaw can be even more harmful, because their jaw muscles are less able to resist the stretching forces of their heavier body weight. www.researchgate.net/publication/236100162_Lip_Gripping_May_Harm_Fish As the doctor states, the damage is exaggerated even more in larger fish. However, he does not state that there is no damage in smaller fish-just that there may be MORE damage in larger fish.
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Post by rfourn on Jan 9, 2020 3:41:49 GMT -6
Amen!
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Robert Burton
Fly Fishing Zombie
Eventually all things merge into one, and a river runs through it.
Posts: 4,744
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Post by Robert Burton on Jan 9, 2020 9:31:29 GMT -6
While we all appreciate the passion, at what point do we consider the actual act of fishing is harm? Drag it out of the water by a hook in the same jaw (yes while the body weight is support by the water) it thrashing about, making leaps, etc.
If we go too far down the rabbit hole of proper C&R we might as well leave out the "C"
PETA and other animal religions have already started to target this aspect/argument...let's not helps them.
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Post by brianrap on Jan 9, 2020 10:15:17 GMT -6
Let's also not hide from the facts or bury our heads in the sand. What we do can certainly cause harm, and if there are simple steps we can take to reduce or eliminate some of that harm, it is incumbent on each of us that favor C&R to adopt those changes. As the Ph.D. in fish physiology recommended "Muscle exhaustion, lactic acid buildup and hook punctures all reduce a fish’s chances of post-release survival, so it’s important to limit any additional forms of stress or injury. And one simple way to do this is to refrain from lifting them by their lower jaw." Seems perfectly reasonable to me and hopefully will be embraced much more widely by all of us that are concerned about the health of our fisheries. To me, using a less damaging means of handling fish is not going too far down the rabbit hole of C&R. I recognize that for others, this simple change might be too much to ask. That will not, however, preclude me from encouraging the least damaging methods that science and the researchers have discovered and have endorsed. Would any of us sit by quietly if we saw this being done by a C&R fisher? www.anglersmail.co.uk/blogs/anglng-trust-blog-sat-extreme-fishing-is-it-a-good-look-42596
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Robert Burton
Fly Fishing Zombie
Eventually all things merge into one, and a river runs through it.
Posts: 4,744
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Post by Robert Burton on Jan 10, 2020 10:05:49 GMT -6
sigh
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Post by brianrap on Jan 10, 2020 11:16:22 GMT -6
My thoughts exactly. The science seems pretty clear on this. Clearly too much effort for some to make some minor changes to minimize potential harm. Much more of a concern to get a picture of the catch than concern themselves with the well-being of the fish, when both could be just as easily accomplished without the additional risk. Pretty f'in simple really.
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