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Post by itchyman on Oct 1, 2009 19:57:47 GMT -6
BAM - Boo that is ... (deja-vu or what) ... they're not as fluffy as some think ...........
Yup - just before my hiatus, I had started a path of no return ... the making of bamboo fly rods and that Scratchy character had everythig to do with it .... well --- almost everything. Diving and delving into the wierd, wonderful, and sensory-overloaded world of Arundinaria amabilis. Over my hiatus I continued. Diving, reading, soaking, learning (still doing that), tooling, playing and improving the tricks, and nik-naks of working with bamboo.
I can tell you that some bamboo is better than other, but when put into a rod - it's hard to physically see it. Working (HA ! more like playing - its just too much fun for work) with various sources of bamboo - some is great to work with - other is plain buffalo chips ...... no fibers for strength, or little lanolin to hold what's there together.
There's myths and misconceptions that a 6wt bamboo (for example) is more likea 4wt graphite ..... this couldn't be wrong for any more reasons than that - it's just plain wrong. And on that note, the PIE rod will be out next year.
I've taken a 2-strip, 5'8" Midge and held it horizontally by the last 1/2 inch at the tip - without failure. I've overlined the same taper with an WF8F line, overpowered and underpowered the cast - yes I was trying to bust the rod, but that didn't do it.
I've generated 2 hex tomato stakes - the 2nd better than the 1st (obviously). Both hex's would be fishable if built up, but they are of no specific tapers, so I'm not sure what they'd do.
Bamboo does need to be cared for a bit more than graphite - the bamboo will stress relieve and take a set when left unsupported. Standing upright is sufficient and will not harm the rod or take a set, but full horizontal support is about prime when storing them.
I have a 2-pc 7wt in the forms now - was hoping to get it done for a fall break-in ........ guess not. But, with the move done, yard work nearing completion, just a few fall hunts to stock up on wing feathers for a few more butchers - and the boo-machine will be back and busy.
I know there's a few bamboo .... fanatics - here. But if anyone is curious, or has questions, feel free to ask.
itchy,
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Post by kilgortrout on Oct 2, 2009 9:15:26 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2009 19:45:49 GMT -6
Awesome! Bamboo is beautiful , so get in there and cook some up! Speaking of 6 wt bamboo, got a beauty hex blank ready to go, all ferruled up, finished, just needs some hardware on 'er. It's an 8' 6wt Wayne Cattanach 8062 "the Force" taper. From what I read, a rocket of a taper. Can't wait to give it a whirl next spring. Ken
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Post by itchyman on Nov 4, 2009 21:29:58 GMT -6
well - saw some ice forming and sticking to Sturgeon Creek today ... thought it's time to get some winter projects going ..... Getting around to finishing the strips for the bamboo hex (Garrison 212E). Had the butt section done a couple weeks back. Now ... just had to get the tips done (I'm used to dealing with small thousandths of an inch at work). - however with composite fibers, aluminum, steels, titanium, etc .... not with bamboo. This almost scared the beejeezers outta me .... but - I had to do it. Learned a lot from working the butts, moreso, learned a lot of patience is needed, time is your friend ... and keep a sharp blade (essentially after every 2 strips - sharpen it). Well - the strips aren't planing themselves ..... Pitter-patter ...... I had a brief thought .. 'ya know, out of all the planing I've done - no 'boo blood was spilled'. ....... I shouldn't have thought it - 2 swipes later, strip went to jump, I caught it and EL-SLICE-O ..... boo-blood Anyhow, just need to build the oven, dry them, scrape to final and finish them off. But ... you know ....... this is all going too good for me ....... maybe it's been the practice over the past year and a half with PMQ's and hex tomato stakes, or ..... something VERY VERY wrong is going on and I just don't know it yet. Well, I gotta be off and running. Time for kidlets to be stuffed into their beds. darrell,
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2009 10:15:27 GMT -6
Thanks for the update, Itchy. Keep 'em coming... And, sorry to hear about the boo boo-boo Ken
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Post by flyfisheranonymous on Nov 6, 2009 8:00:16 GMT -6
Darrell no blood on the rod please!!! Hope it wasn't to bad an injury.
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Post by itchyman on Nov 7, 2009 18:12:01 GMT -6
Stu ... I had to differentiate the tips from the butt pieces somehow ... whadda ya think that red stuff is on the tip there ..... (well, ok, that's marker from the get-go months back) ...... ... didn't need Ken's assistance as far as it the damage ..... one thing about bamboo - they're as sharp as a scalpel ...... now, if I can only get that piece out from under the nail .................... now ... for some serious stuff ..... time to go put some rum-raisin icecream over that last remaining piece of raisin pie ....... ;D
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Post by flyfisheranonymous on Nov 9, 2009 8:07:00 GMT -6
You are a dog Itchy!!!!!
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Post by itchyman on Nov 12, 2009 19:34:36 GMT -6
wuff ..... ;D For the curious .... the 1st picture is a piece of Tonkin Grade A bamboo. The 2nd is a piece of Home Depot hand picked (by yours truly - the best they had). Tonkin Gr A Home Depot You can see the difference in the density of the fibers, which make up the strength of the bamboo. Although Tonkin is the preferred cane of choice, other sources are definately available. The thing is .... you need to know what you're looking for. With Tonkin, it's known, it's available - and it's generally repetative in fiber quantity and strength. But definately not hte be-all to end-all. oh the blasphemy ..... HA ! Conversion factors from graphite to bamboo were set up based on Tonkin choice stalks. It varies in strength between growing sources, but that can be said pretty much for most items ... something to keep in mind. BUT ... that being said, in trials I've run through a lab, I've found the Home Depot bamboo and Tonkin Grade A bamboo to overlap each other in flexural strength values. Food for thought .... just in case some are looking for additional winter projects ....... play with the Home Depot stuff, get used to it, then pick up some Tonkin and go .......... itchy
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Post by itchyman on Jan 6, 2010 20:59:19 GMT -6
dump-da-da-daaaaa !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well - it continues ...... 1st fishable hex bamboo done. Some assembly required - but it's ready to go ......... Garrison 212E taper, 8ft 6wt, (# 001). Dimensionally, I screwed up somewhere .... but - did it consistantly ( was always told, if you're going to screw up, be consistant). Instead of a 6wt, it's closer to a 7wt by the stress curve. So ... off to the dwg board to see where I fouled up. In the mean time - Garrison 212E # 002 is in the works. Same rod, same taper, just a few differences (this one's due to be a blonde, versus #001 which is a caramel). ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2010 12:25:51 GMT -6
Nice! Can't wait to see how they cast! Ken
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Post by creekhunter on Jan 7, 2010 13:05:38 GMT -6
absoulutely bam boo ti full man Super Job! hey if you ever make a flawed set of blanks you want to get rid of let me know ;D I will still fish them ... Creek ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2010 17:46:10 GMT -6
One of the good things about a Boo rod is it will make a good back scratcher if you break it. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2010 19:16:04 GMT -6
Looking good! Itchyman itchen to get the guides on now
How did the cold weather tests go?
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Post by itchyman on Jan 16, 2010 16:22:25 GMT -6
Just finished the 1st test today :
- 3 deg C - cold soaked 2 hours - bent, twisted, distorted, cranked, and punished the rod in directions rods shouldn't be - no problems
next soak temp at -5 deg C
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Post by kilgortrout on Jan 16, 2010 20:06:51 GMT -6
Scratchman here, well it is 2 to nun. The Boo is flamed, split and waiting for me to make it into something. I was thinking dickerson8013. So you might have to down tools and give me that boot to the pants to get going. I did sharpen my planes in hopes of getting going. Glad to see the Boo has stood the stress test, might have to re test it at tokaryk lake this summer, eh, what? Cheers Ron.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2010 23:04:47 GMT -6
I`d be up for a boo testing run to Tokaryk this spring. Ooooh, yeah! Ken
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Post by itchyman on Mar 8, 2010 17:35:16 GMT -6
hrumpf ..... Well .... as noted in Dr G's thread ... Home Depot 'boo seemed to fail ... and it did .... and does ........ found the problem though. As me little grey cell can't just let bygones be bygones, I had to figgure out what went south. Why the catestrophic failure after heat and pressing. I had some guesses, but I was only partially there. So, with loosing some valuable coffee time at work to review the matter of un-heated and un-pressed, versus heated, and then a heated and pressed strip, I found the culprit - it's the crappy Home Depot bamboo ......... (d'uh, no rocket science there) ........ Actually, some ..... errrrr ..... science was BORROWED to achieve the results, but, that's a minor point ( ok, major point really, 'cuz without it I'd likely keep flailing away and pooching pieces). What we saw was easily discernable. The un-heated, un-pressed HD bamboo had a certain cross section pattern - in-so-far that the free-cell space (lack of fibers) was more 'loose'. The heat treated bamboo was nealy the same, though 'slightly' different (will come back to that in a bit). .... The heat-treated and pressed bamboo ....... totally different story all-together. Back in the heated only bamboo, differences were seen in the cells and fibers of the 'loosely' packed bamboo (the stuff towards the middle). It wasn't a great change, but a consistent change noted nonetheless. Now, after this was pressed, the fibers seemed twisted, but moreso, the lanolin cell struture collapsed - the higher pressure, the more it collapsed. Now - heading back up to the pics above, where Home Depot bamboo is noted versus Tonkin cane ..... the HD bamboo shows to have more fill (lanolin) than the darker fibers. The heating and pressing of the HD bamboo resulted in a more brittle lanolin fill than just leaving well enough alone. To top things all off ... the modulus of the HD bamboo (the flexibility / strength - modulus of elasticity) was slightly reduced after heat (will have to quantify later) - and greatly reduced after heat and press. Didn't carry out any calculations of the modulus, as the difference in the latter was a clear as real milk versus 1% ..... Now ... the question was left to be asked : The modulus of elasticity is the true required factor for bamboo. Sure flexural strength is a critical factor as well, but the MOE matters moreso, as without elasticity, you get Playdoh (bend it one way and it stays there). So .... what does heat and pressure do to Tonkin ......... well, not much. The last couple strips of Tonkin I had were used to check this out. So - just as I heated and pressed the HD bamboo, I did the same to the Tonkin. Relatively speaking, the heated and pressed HD bamboo broke when the piece was bent through approx. 35 -40 degrees over about a 3 inch span. Comparatively, the Tonkin was bent about 75-80 degrees across the same 3 inch span before it started to fail - and through >90 degrees before total fiber failure. (and therein was another key factor - Tonkin has more power fibers than HD). Well, off to do a bit more tweaking ..... need some MOE calculations for plain heated HD bamboo (hold the press). BUT ... if anything goes. ....... and is learned ..... I found out that the nerve is very close to the skins surface right beside the cuticle ............ itChY,
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Post by creekhunter on Apr 24, 2014 6:51:32 GMT -6
What if the HD boo rod was made a bit thicker than normal would it compare or get stronger ? or still would it have the same breaking stress rate? Or is the cook time killing the strength of the fibers?
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Post by kilgortrout on Apr 24, 2014 13:29:10 GMT -6
The strength is in the fibers, HD boo has less fibers. If you could figure out how thick you needed to provide the same fibers you would be good to go, hard to figure out. Also the fibers thin out towards the center of the culm, so idealy the strip should be small enough so you do not run out of fibers, adding pith adds well only pith no fibers. So it is not infinatly scalable. Cheers Ron.
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